Photo: http://www.life.com/image/50450741
Let me tell you a story.
It starts like this. I was reading a blogpost, by a writer I have, up till now, had some admiration for, called Clarisse Thorn
Clarisse writes about Kink, feminism, gender and power. Right up my street in other words. This post was on a feminist blog but that didn’t put me off. It was called: ‘I know You’re Smarter Than Me: Clarisse Thorn’s Feminist Ideology’. It started with an anecdote that I am going to repost in full, because this anecdote is what the story is all about. Particularly, it focusses on the man who becomes known, during this story, as ‘Pool Hall Dude’, or PDH for short. Here’s the beginning of Clarisse’s post:
‘I haven’t been on a lot of capital-D Dates. My relationships tend to develop through friendships and mutual interests, mostly because I am a huge nerd. My first on-purpose Date took place when I was seventeen; it was with a local boy who I barely knew — most of our contact was through brief chats on AOL Instant Messenger. (Am I showing my age?) He’d heard a lot about me, I guess, and for some reason he was impressed by my reputation for being smart and weird. He took me to a pool hall and gave me adorable lessons on how to hold the cue, how to break, etc. I don’t remember much of what we talked about … except for one exchange that is burned into my brain forevermore.
Prostitution had entered the conversation, and he said something about how it’s immoral.
“Immoral?” I asked. “What makes you say that?” I had not yet researched sex work or evolved the complex opinions that I have about it today, but I still knew there was something extremely weird about dismissing prostitution as “immoral”. I’d felt fairly bored by the conversation thus far, and was genuinely curious about how this would go; I remember smiling and thinking, hey, this could be interesting.
He was across the table from me, leaning over his pool cue, lining up a shot. He glanced up — looking surprised, like it was totally weird that I was challenging such a fundamental thing as prostitution being immoral (gasp!) — and he gave me a heart-melting smile. “Oh,” he said casually, “I know you’re smarter than me, so let’s not get into it.”
I blinked. I shut up. I think I might even have smiled, out of confusion if nothing else. We chatted about whatever he brought up next. He took me home and dropped me off without a kiss; there was no chemistry (at least not on my end, I certainly can’t speak for him). No second date. But “I know you’re smarter than me, so let’s not get into it” … that line, and the friendly way he said it, stuck in my head. It was an amazingly complimentary, amazingly condescending, amazingly effective way of shutting me down’.
Now I don’t know how old Clarisse is, but I am guessing this date happened a long time ago. She was 17. Pool Hall Dude was around her age, I think. They had a bad first date. It didn’t lead to a second. We have all been there. But the date included ‘one exchange that is burned into my brain forevermore.’ And that is what this story is about really. I read Clarisse’s account of her date, all those years ago, and her subsequent reflections on her feminism, and how the experience of getting ‘shut down’ in conversations about gender has featured prominently in her continued feminist thinking and action. And all the time I kept asking myself ‘but what about Pool Hall Dude?’ ‘I wonder what happened to him’.
For someone Clarisse met only once, with no particular incident, Clarisse seemed to know PHD quite well. She went on to say:
‘PHD had no real interest in my intelligence at all. He knew I’m smart, he knew I had something to say about sexual politics — but all that was just an ornament to him. To him, my intelligence was more like a fetish than a personality characteristic he admired. America’s got plenty of anti-feminists who try to deny us the big stuff, but let’s not forget how those folks derive power from even the smallest ways girls are told to shut up and sit down:
“I know you’re smarter than me,” and maybe you just made a good point, but come on, let’s not worry about any of that challenging sex and gender stuff here on our date (since dates, of course, have nothing to do with sex and gender). Why don’t you take your smart but inconvenient girl brain and turn it off for me, could you, sweetheart?
Now maybe I’m taking PHD’s little jest “much too seriously”, or worse, “being bitchy”. I mean, I am a humorless feminist and all!
Well you said it love. But here she rather craftily imposes more words into PHD’s mouth than he actually said. She analyses his ‘you’re smarter than me’ and decides it means her intelligence meant nothing to him, except it may have been an ornament, or a fetish. She says he found her ‘smart’ ‘girl brain’ inconvenient. She says he was basically telling her to ‘shut up and sit down’ .
Clarisse was offended, all those years ago, that Pool Hall Dude didn’t defer to her greater intelligence:
‘If PHD knew I was so much smarter than him, then why didn’t he want to learn from me?’
And at the end of her article, when she has related this anecdote to her wider feminist beliefs, she leaves us with some advice:
‘…just remember my handsome Pool Hall Dude, leaning over a cue and smiling at me. And know that I wish I’d thrown my drink in his charming face. Now, I don’t advocate actually throwing drinks. I wouldn’t even necessarily advocate having an argument in the pool hall, depending on how safe and effective you feel discussing these issues in that context. But I do advocate, at the very least, keeping track of those moments and what they mean. Watch the cultural tapestry, think about how often feminist perspectives get turned aside or boiled down or stereotyped or silenced.
And speak up whenever you can.’
Well, it seems that Clarisse has had no problem speaking up here.
In the comments thread, I spoke up myself, on behalf of Pool Hall Dude. And I said:
‘ I didn’t read that comment from ‘Pool Hall Dude’ in the same way as you, Clarisse. Maybe he was condescending in other ways too, and you obviously didn’t click.But maybe he was genuinely intimidated by the fact you were obviously smarter than him and didn’t want to get into an argument he knew he would lose/and lose badly probably.I don’t know. I just think it sounds like you are assuming everyone would agree with your interpretation of that event. Sure, you were there and we weren’t. But so was Pool Hall Dude and we will never hear his side of the story, will we?And in away, that is my allegory for feminism. From a different perspective.’
And then all hell broke loose. You can read the comments thread here:
The discussion got heated and quickly descended into insults and chaos (a bit like a scrap in a pool hall). This was one of the more articulate comments, and typical of the general point of Clarisse’s post, I think:
Someone says, “This thing happened and it was sexist / racist / otherwise bigoted and it really bothered me and I learned X from it,” and the immediate reaction is, “But maybe you’re misinterpreting the situation.” And the commentariat proceeds to make up all kinds of different reasons why the person’s words shouldn’t be interpreted the way that the author — the only one of us who was there — heard them. And then the whole point of the piece gets missed, because we’re all focused on the fact that the poor nameless person who said whatever thing that lead the author to a much bigger and more important conclusion isn’t here to defend themselves.’
But that’s true. Pool Hall Dude is not there to defend himself. And neither are the ‘poor nameless’ people-men- in all the other anecdotes feminists tell to illustrate their point- on this thread and in many other feminist fora- that men are shits. And that women are the victims of men’s ‘micro-aggression’ -closing down conversations and ignoring their knowledge and interest in gender issues.
This commenter is making it so that anyone who challenges the conclusions of Clarisse Thorn, in this case, about Pool Hall Dude, and what his throwaway remark, all those years ago, meant and still means for her feminism, and feminism as a whole, is ‘derailing’ the discussion. Just as Pool Hall Dude was said to have done, in that pool hall, on a first date with Clarisse, all those years ago.
Meanwhile, whilst I was being trashed on that thread, and people were clammering for a ‘trigger warning’ to go on the post (as I was ‘triggering’ women’s trauma as a result of being raped and assaulted), and for the ‘ban hammer’ to come out and get rid of me, I was contributing to a discussion about Misandry on Mark Simpson’s blog. In his piece, he had referenced an occasion not so long ago, when I was similarly accused of ‘derailing’ a discussion that was slagging off men, and for ‘shutting down debate’. BUT I WASN’T. I was having the debate. And I was similarly shut down, myself in that situation, and banned from commenting on the blog.
But nobody can shut me down on my own blog, yet. So I will make the point I wanted to make all along.
Feminism and feminist discourse is dependent on the assumption that on the whole, left to their own devices, men are bad. And examples of men being bad are used, like Pool Hall Dude, to illustrate and prove this assumption to be true, where we can’t get their side of the story. They can’t answer back. They are just generic ‘man’. And we all know what he is like, don’t we?
The irony of this ridiculous chain of events, in which one man left the feminist blog he had been an active participant on, as a result of our conflict, (and maybe he will ‘leave’ feminism now, too), is that though men are being presented as the enemy here, I, as a woman, am the main person getting the blame. Because I have the audacity to support these low-lives!
On that feminist blog I got accused of being a ‘troll’, an ‘asshole’ an ‘idiot’ a ‘denier’ of ‘reality’ a contributor to ‘rape culture’ a ‘sad’ individual, and the soon-to-be owner of an honorary cock. Basically I was being called a ‘man’. And we know what they are like don’t we?
This is how misandry works. Men’s perspectives and experiences, in relation to women, are not allowed to be heard, and anyone who suggests this is shown up to be either a typical man, or just as bad as those horrible creatures, men.
So here I am. Not any kind of woman or any kind of man either. I expect that makes people feel a bit uncomfortable. But it’s not my doing. I am not allowed to be a woman in this world, with my views, with my care for my brothers. I’m just a fucked up chick who should have a dick. But I can’t even manage that can I? I know I’m a problem. But I don’t revel in that. Because it shows how fucked up everyone is. Especially when it comes to gender. Maybe I am Pool Hall Dude? I certainly would like to hear his story.
Quiet Riot Girl 
“Up until now”? Gosh, QRG, I didn’t realize that after writing tons of posts you agree with, I’d lose your respect by writing one that you disagree with.
I agree with you on some things, and I think you make good points sometimes, but seriously? For someone who complains about how you’re treated so often, you can be awfully snide.
it wasn’t so much the post as how the discussion evolved afterwards Clarisse. I am not being snide I am being open about my response. I couldnt make my views heard on the Feministe Blog as I was being told to shut up and sit down! which as I have pointed out I thought you weren’t really into that kind of treatment of people.
They got a trigger warning put on that post because I was being accused of ‘triggering’ women by being a contributor to ‘rape culture’ and deserving of an ‘honorary cock’. In terms of both our interests in masculinity I had thought you might think that was a bit shit too.
As I’ve said before, I think there was BS on both sides of that Feministe debate. I tried to facilitate it in a positive way and gave up because people were more interested in fighting. If I’m going to lose your respect because I choose not to waste my time attempting to intervene in an angry internet debate that’s become massively heated and entangled, then I guess that’s how it goes.
You havent lost my respect as a person Clarisse. I think what you do is great.
But I am having trouble with your version of feminism that seems blind to the aggression and specifically gendered language of those folk at feministe. Telling a woman she needs an ‘honorary cock’ in a feminist context is very clear to me. And accusing her of contributing to rape culture. It’s nasty stuff and I was disappointed you didn’t challenge it.
This is a first, as I have actually read the blog and comments referred to here and, for once, I feel reasonably au fait with what is being discussed.
From memory, I don’t remember disagreeing with anything QRG said although I was surprised by the assumptions and inferences that were made about what she was saying. In my limited experience, this seems to be a feature of feminist debate (male and female participants).
If I put myself in PHD’s shoes – and impose my character on his – it sounds to me like he thought he’d made a mistake with his date and tried to flatter his way out of it. But we’re all making interpretations, right?
On a separate note: QRG, you have a better choice of images to illustrate your blogs that anywhere else I’ve seen or been.
Thanks Fenner. I am not a very arty person but I like choosing pictures. They sometimes put across what I want to say better than words.
I didn’t want to get into another argument about poor PHD. Maybe I like him because he has three initials like QRG. But to point out in my own space, how I saw that feminist discourse going over at Feministe. Especially in the light of Mark’s post on Misandry.
My biggest issue with Feministe was the image of the girl with the gun. Kinda wannabe masculine? Or did I miss a/the joke?
you see the white guy in the top picture – on the right- looking up at the camera? I think that’s Pool Hall Dude.
my biggest issue was the way the moderators treated people and encouraged such hateful behaviour from the users.
I dont think it was a joke I think it was a symbol of a strong woman to them!
Hi,
came here from Clarisse Thorn’s site and this
This is how misandry works. Men’s perspectives and experiences, in relation to women, are not allowed to be heard, and anyone who suggests this is shown up to be either a typical man, or just as bad as those horrible creatures, men.
reminded me of something that stranded in my feed reader today.
Namely this:
http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2011/02/07/spinster-aunt-mutters-in-yiddish
good god Tim That’s horrendous!
That stuff with the moderators passed me by, I’m afraid. Where did all that ‘trigger’ stuff come from? Did you get a warning?
So, feminists like Tank Girl, is that it? Genius.
They put a ‘trigger warning’ on the post because people were claiming to be ‘triggered’ by me challenging the idea of rape culture. like I was reminding them of being raped.
I was said guy who left Feminste following that argument. What is disappointing is that no matter what I said, it was going to be used as a sign that I fit the heterosexual sexist male stereotype. Dead silence was the only acceptable response, although men that always stay silent about oppression are simply supporting it in my view. And no doubt after all these years of reading feminist literature, one of the valid complaints many women have is that too many men just go along with oppressive behavior and/or speech. So, now what? It’s an impossible place to be in.
Clarisse – if you return here, I just want to say I had no desire to fight with everyone, agreed with the vast majority of you post, and only felt that your example of two teenagers on a first date wasn’t too soundproof. Your take on the whole thing might even be completely right, but take that post out to a wider audience, and that example will be torn to shreds. I don’t think you could have done a whole lot about what happened there because it seems to happen frequently on that site – anyone who doesn’t fit the majority’s bill is in deep trouble, regardless of their gender.
One thing I would disagree with QRG is any view that there is a single “feminism.” There are many varieties, intersecting all kinds of other issues as well, such as race and class, to name two easy ones. And the kind of experiences I had at Feministe – that wasn’t the first scrap I’d been in – are not indicative of all those I have had amongst people claiming a feminist label of whatever variety. I know plenty of women who have studied feminist philosophies of various stripes, and who also respect men, can work with men, have healthy debates with men, and also have a bit of compassion when calling men out on questionable behavior.
Thanks for commenting Nathan. Feministe is particularly bad but its not the first feminist blog I have had problems with. I have had my comments blocked/been banned from at least three others. One run by a man! For stating the kinds of opinions you see here.
(QRG- I apologize for commenting on an old thread.)
Actually, nathan, dead silence is NOT an acceptable response.
See this post:
http://nocookiesforme.blogspot.com/2007/10/this-post-really-is-about-menz.html
And specifically, this comment down the page. I assure you, no context will help here.
Miss Andrist: As I told my friends, you can observe this as it happens, in real life and on feminist boards. When a male leaves the room or excuses himself from participating in a conversation turned to feminism, he reminds us that we’re only as significant as he chooses to acknowledge. Regardless of his intention, he demonstrates that no matter how important these issues may be to us, they are simply not pressing enough that even a self-described friend would just hear us out.
There’s no winning.
‘The purpose of all this is not to censor men or punish men or hate men or do anything to men at all (although if that’s what they want to think, it’s no skin off my nose). Rather, it’s to keep the blogular discourse as free as possible from the contamination of male privilege.’
‘contamination’…. Nice. It’s fucking fascism that’s what it is.
Yeah QRG, pretty horrendous.
Especially the comments.
although this is not the first blog I have seen taking similar measures to ensure ‘civil’ a discussion.
In general I think properly moderating and policing a platform for discussion, especially one that is primarily devoted to a gender, a movement or something similar. Especially when you want to encourage people to have an open and well-mannered discourse throughout all of the degraphic landscape.
If your commenters are too homogenous you are at the risk of alienating people who think different from your regular guest simply because every comment will be met with (not necessarily meant as disrespecting) responses. But if you have a too diverse group of commenters you risk going off-topic at every occasion. And if you employ tactics such as mentioned above, and I mean stuff which purpose is actively keeping certain demographics away, you risk turning your platform into an echo chamber whith a lot of people who simply high-five and pass snarky comments to each other (I hate snark).
I agree Tim that’s what I was saying to clarisse. The blog moderator has a lot of responsibility.
I think feminism is riddled with ‘snark’!
In general I think properly moderating and policing a platform for discussion, especially one that is primarily devoted to a gender, a movement or something similar ..
.., is a pretty difficult balance act.
goddammit, I really need to go to bed.
Hi folks.
I really liked Clarisse, and I’m sorry if I hurt her feelings, but we just weren’t compatible. She was educated and stuff, and big into books, and boy could she tallk! I liked to shoot pool, fish and sometimes go to church on Sundays. Politics wasn’t really my thing.
After a while on that date I got the feeling she was laying traps for me and setting me up by saying stuff like: ‘Oh, really, and why do you think that?’ She was making me feel dumb.
Thing is, she WAS smarter than me – that’s a fact. And I guess that’s part of what attracted me in the first place. But after our first date I was just smart enough to see that the two of us weren’t going anywhere.
It’s a shame because she would have made a real great pool player. She was a natural!
PHD
It had to be you-it was the heart-melting-smile that gave you away, and the total lack of interest in being lectured by feminists. Especially in a pool hall full of fit, heart-melting Pool Hall Dudes.
I’d like to second Tim’s comments about moderating. You have to strive for some kind of balance. In my time hanging around Feministe, I supported the toss of a few folks who clearly just were trouble-making, or were just making personal attacks on article writers or commenters. Another blog I hang around on is Racialicious, which I think is much better moderated overall. People tend to discuss and debate each other more on there as well – it’s more the norm to consider what was posted. Certainly, things can get nasty over there as well, but what I have seen from moderators is a willingness to step in, suggest a change or warn that further comments in a certain direction will be rejected.
The discussions there are often a hell of a lot more interesting as a result of the way the moderators work, and also how people seem to treat each other based on the way those who run the site have modeled things.
Here’s an example:
http://www.racialicious.com/2011/02/07/canadians-dont-say-such-things-halle-berry-gabriel-aubry-and-common-fallacies-in-interracial-relationships/#disqus_thread
More happens in 30 comments on that post, than in nearly 200 on the Clarisse’s Feministe post.
In my opinion, so much comes down to how those who run a site model and moderate. It was quite telling to see Jill, one of the moderators on Feministe, join the dogpile after I stopped commenting and left.
yes Nathan ‘Jill’ doesnt take a very decent position as a moderator she ‘joins the dogpile’ as you say. Ridiculous people they are!
I don’t know racialicious I will have a look.
The first Date date I ever went on (I was 16), the exchange, following a long awkward silence during which I’m pretty sure I stared at him across the Tim Horton’s table in hostile fashion, went like this:
ME: So. You like me.
BOY: Yeah.
ME: You know I’m not like other girls.
BOY: Yeah.
ME: I’m SMART.
BOY: Yeah.
ME: No, you don’t understand. I’m really, REALLY smart.
BOY: Yeah, I know.
ME: So, if you want to date those other girls, you should, you know, go ahead.
BOY: No. I like you.
The relationship didn’t work out. I was way too naturally hostile to boys to be able to date them – even if, like this poor guy, he seemed to like it, and my (loudly self-proclaimed) intelligence. If it was a fetish, I give him credit for it and I wish more guys had it (or I could meet them). (I have a fetish for smart guys, myself.) Incidentally, claiming that people who don’t agree with you are “triggering” your rape trauma makes a mockery of (sane) rape victims, of which, at last count, I have known five (all raped or molested before the age of 20). Also, I highly recommend throwing drinks in men’s faces, but only as an act of sexual provocation. The date might have gone better if that had happened! Like, sex on the pool table better.
I can’t remember ever being shut down in a conversation by a man in my entire life (although when I was younger I sometimes ran off at the mouth too much to forestall it occurring). I’m still a feminist though, very much one.
Ha I agree Elise the throwing a drink in the face could have changed that night, and the course of history forever!
I have been shut down by men, and women, in conversation. I don’t see it as a gender issue particularly. I am not very assertive sometimes though probably getting better/worse.
Clarisse’s blog has some good discussions going on, esp. in the masculinitythreads.
The Feminist Critics blog is probably the blog that tries the most to be fair to both sides, but while some of the discussions on there can be brilliant they really don’t get too many feminists there at times.
yes I like the masculinity threads on Clarisses Blog Clarence.
The thing is I don’t think there are just ‘two sides’ to discussions of gender. it is often presented as that but its not how life is!
I dont know The Feminist Critics-do you have a url?
Quiet Riot Girl:
I recommend you read these three introductory posts. They are rather short, and you will get a feel for the blog. I think it goes more out of the way to try and bring all sides of the “gender” debate together in a calm and courteous way.
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/about/
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/about/newcomers-read-this-first-faq-12262008/
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/about/what-feminism-got-right/
And here’s one of the newest threads if you do decide to explore the actual blog and what it talks about:
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2011/02/05/feminists-criticising-feminist-misandry/
That place is my refuge when the “gender” stuff gets insane.
Clarence – I’ve looked at couple of posts on that site, and to be honest it does address a lot of the (awkward) key questions that get overlooked regarding sexual politics these days (e.g. ‘the great equivocation’ re. ‘equality’ v ‘women’s rights’). And they seem to be relatively civilised about it.
As for Pool Hall Dude, sometimes you have to walk away: as QRG says maybe he didn’t want ‘to get into an argument he knew he would lose/and lose badly probably’, especially if it hinged on her knowledge of feminist arguments v whatever what in his head (feminist or otherwise).
I know isn’t that what first dates are for? to decide to walk away or not?
I think Pool Hall Dude probably wanted to fuck, and saw disagreement as dropping a wrench in the romance.
If I was her, I’d have fucked him, and then had the conversation. I can’t get guys to shut up after I fuck them…
Elissa that is a brilliant analysis of the PHD situation. My favourite so far!
@Quiet Riot Girl
I have a dream of a genuine, humanistic movement that deals fairly with the societal strictures placed on all genders, and is equally open to and honest about the experiences of all genders.
Although early feminism is to be commended for taking the first steps towards such a thing, unfortunately, as it seems to me, that project at first stalled under (some) feminism(s) and later actively opposed.
But for such a thing to ever happen, it seems that people like you, with their ears open to all perspectives, are vital.
Please drop by Feminist Critics more often, if you can.
thanks P John Irons I will.
Feminism, or at least its critique, just got interesting for me again!
QRG, I just came across this post. I’d just like to voice my support for thinking it is unreasonable to assume PHD was being a chauvinist and shutting down conversation. It sounds like he was just trying to relax and have a good time while CT’s idea of a good time is picking arguments. It does not matter who PHD was, or what he meant, some people are just unreasonable and will twist any situation around to fit their paranoid narrative of reality.
You sound like a humble, nice and reasonable person, trying to gain the approval of people who demonstrate such unreason and bad faith is beneath you. You might as well go to a white supremacist website and try to convince them racism is bad. Don’t fall into the trap of dwelling too much on this situation, thinking that if only you said the right the thing, in the right way, you can convince people or make some progress in the discourse; don’t blame yourself.
Intelligent reasoned discourse on feminism is far and few in between. Sometimes you just have to step back and realize that in a particular “feminist” space there is no hope, and then try somewhere else.
Hiya QRG,
I really like what I’ve read from Clarisse so far….
That’s not to say I agree but that she presents interesting topics and has a great writing style.
I tried to mention on the Feministe blog that to say what PHD was saying was meant as a “tactic” may not be the case…. He may have only meant to go onto another topic. If Clarisse had been shut down several times and there was a “pattern” then okay, I can see it as a “tactic.” She didn’t really delve into that in her story….
I have been called “priviliged” on that site by people who know not a thing of my personal life experience. I mentioned how men die at younger ages then women.
I mentioned how my family was unsupportive of my choices to become a musician. My mother wanted me to be a “bread winner.” Ironically she calls herself a feminist. The responses I got were “Check your privilege at the door” and “whaah, Stoner is Ohhh so Sensitive. (BTW-women don’t want a “sensitive” man no matter what they say-they want a silent type who takes abuse without exploding.) My experiences at that site have showed me I must assertively stand up for my rights and feelings and those of my friends. I’m not going to tiptoe around so feminist extremists just to keep the peace.
Misandry-thanks for teaching me a new word QRG. My mother and the “sugar, spice and everything nice” women at feministe have long taught me the meaning.
Hi Stoner-With a Boner!
Thanks for your comments. I didn’t know what misandry meant till quite recently, and, unlike you, I hadn’t experienced it directly so I kind of pretended it didn’t exist, with or without the word to go with it.
Ha yes those women at Feministe show that nursery rhyme to be some kind of bullshit.
What I don’t like about Feministe is that almost no actual dicussion is going on in the comment section. Most of the comments are simple yay-saying, high-fiveing or just rephrasing the original post. They might as well implement a ‘Like’-Button. Kinda like an echo chamber.
Hello QRG,
I’m Thomas from Clarisse Thorn’s blog. You are right, there are some blogs like yours, which talk about masculinity in a constructive way, but they are rare. I’ve read a couple of your posts now and I admit that I often don’t really get your point. I guess you’re smarter than me 😉 . Nonetheless, I’m interested in topic and I’m especially interested in the opinion of someone outside the feminist’s hive mind. I like your writing and I will try to participate in your comment section if I can.
Hi Thomas!
Haha that’s funny. You see, I don’t mind being told I’m smart, even if it does draw the conversation to a close.
I will post some links tomorrow to some of my previous posts about feminism.
Hope you do feel like commenting sometimes.
About the idea that there are different feminisms:
http://pink-scare.blogspot.com/2011/01/from-archives-feminism-or-feminisms.html
Oh and I think the reason people jumped on you is because you basically judged an entire fucking philosophy/political movement with one bloody brush.
@ Jenny:
I’ve had the same experience of feminism. It has a knee jerk tendency to ascribe the worst–and I mean THE WORST–possible motives to any male action.
If there’s a feminism that does not believe in male original sin, please point me to it. I think you’ll find your finger is pointing towards the exit.
BTW, interesting blog Quiet Riot Girl.
I think it’s worth considering Jenny’s point here. As I have repeatedly said, there are many forms of feminism, some of which are quite in disagreement with each other. I was just reading bell hooks the other night, after all this discussion broke out, and remembering how much I liked that she genuinely wants to reach across lines that tend to divide, and yet is very fierce in her take on many issues. She’s just one writer, but there are plenty of others. It’s too easy to lump it all together, and toss that lump out the window.
I have read all the books and explored most feminisms. This conclusion is after 40 years of experience and research. You guys just caught me at the end of my rope…
Teehee, I checked out the femiste comments section. Fuckin-A. Hi-larious.
I liked at the end how in a discussion about how wrong it is to silence people, one poster took the view that as dissagreeing with rape culture upset her, no one she be allowed to do so ever, and that you, a troll, should shut up and could no longer come to her birthday party.
It doesn’t take much for feminism to show its true colours, does it?
Intolerant
Incoherent
Inconsistent
Imbecilic
Enjoy your “honarary penis”; they have a grand variety of durable uses and you’ve earned it.
thanks Jared. I know it is quite ridiculously ironic.
The four Is are very apt: Intolerant, Incoherent, Inconsistent, Imbecilic… and also maybe Impotent.
Aaah,
now I get why QRG chose that picture. Had me wondering right from the beginning what it was supposed to mean.
Anyway, rock out with your cock out.
The examples above wouldn’t be considered derailing in any feminist places I’ve ever hung out. Derailing is when you start talking about a totally different subject or demand that people should be talking about something else.
That thing about “contamination” was a fucking embarassment to feminism though. You’ve got me there.
For someone who complains about how you’re treated so often, you can be awfully snide
Must say I agree.