The Little Train That Couldn’t

Posted: April 23, 2011 in Uncategorized
  1. ‘ Lucy, McDuff and QRG all think they are adding something to the conversation. They all think this massive derail, which allows them to post screeds of pointless whatever, is somehow useful in feminism – well maybe they don’t, but for some reason they still think it’s very important to say it. QRG thinks her “disruption” of feminism is something to be proud of because Derrida would have approved (who knew that when it came down to it postmodernism was basically the ideology of trolls?). They all feel that feminism needs criticising and that they are the ones to do it. The fact that feminism particuarly radical feminism is marginal, is always on shaky ground, is either ignored or mocked, of course isn’t taken into account. Feminism must be examined as to how it deals with “dissent” – the use of the word dissent making feminism sound like some kind of totalitarian regime that persecutes anybody who dares disagree with it. Feminism must face its accusers.Of course whilst all this accusation goes on in feminist spaces, nothing actually can progress in online feminism, not at least with regards to theorising, analysis or consciousness raising. It remains on square one – a little more battered and a little more undermined. The one place this currently doesn’t get to happen is on radical feminist blogs who have decided to reserve commenting for other rad fems so pro-sex industry feminists, haters, liberals, men – not welcome. And without those people there to disrupt the politics, the theorising has taken off. There has been some fantastic analysis recently of sexual intercourse, male violence, economic structures that keep women tied to men, trans. What’s been going on has been some of the most intellectually stimulating work I’ve read in a long time.

    All these people claiming that they are helping feminism with their “dissent” and “disruption” are kidding themselves. The truth is simpler – they are getting in its way.

http://toomuchtosayformyself.com/2011/04/20/an-occupational-hazard/#comments

Comments
  1. Tim says:

    Yeah Elly ! Stop perpetuating patriachy by voicing reasonable concern ! You are not helping the course of feminism and your doing is not only an attack on a marginal part of feminism but on every kind of feminism ! I am even bold enough to say that you are a threat to every living and breathing women ! And you are also most probably a man !

    Okay, lets stop the mocking for a second.

    What is she compaining about ? That a lot of people critize feminism. And she is right about that. There are quite a few people criticizing feminism for what it is.

    Does that mean those people have no right to criticize ? No, people have the right to criticize everything and everyone and that is a very important thing in every advanced form of society.

    But aren’t feminists the good ones ? This does not really matter. I mean even if all the things you do are good and helpfull 90% of all times does not mean that there is no need to fix the last 10%. And it also does not help to point out that all the others are doing much worse.

    Does that mean every critical piece written is a personal attack ? No, it isn’t but it is a problem when it is taken as such. Critic is something to be taken serious because it offers a chance to make things better, to improve yourself and handle issues that you don’t see but others do. But instead of listening to critic and accept or refute it, excuses are being made. Arguments are being invalidated and commenters are defamed as trolls.

    Is it fair that feminism is getting so much of criticizim ? Well, feminism claims the high horse of morality and ethniticy and puts up the highest standards for everyone. It is only fair that people are being held up to that.

    Is this ‘getting in the way’ really such a bad thing ? No, it is not ! First of all, a movement based on a solid fundament has a no problem listening to it and accepting or refuting it based on hard facts and reasonable arguments. Besides that, feminism, especially the promised radical feminism has some things that are well worth getting in the way of. Just look at all the trans-hate that is disseminated there !

    • ‘Is this ‘getting in the way’ really such a bad thing ? No, it is not ! First of all, a movement based on a solid fundament has a no problem listening to it and accepting or refuting it based on hard facts and reasonable arguments. Besides that, feminism, especially the promised radical feminism has some things that are well worth getting in the way of. Just look at all the trans-hate that is disseminated there !’

      exactly Tim!

  2. dennis mccann says:

    so the radfems have locked the nursery door, and they’re getting on very well with no disturbance from others. they can use their toys without fear of having to share them. jolly dee….BANG……..BANG………BANG……what’s that noise? who’s trying to break down the nursery door…is it nasty men…is it the sex industry….is it quiet riot girrrrrl? oh it’s reality breaking into the holy sanctuary of the theorectical…..to misquote someone famous…..theoreticians interpret the world, the point, however is to change it

    • very true dennis very true! That’s what made me laugh the most. The bit about how exciting and profound their conversations got, when nobody else was allowed to join in, except for the self-appointed ‘righteous’ radfems!

  3. Mr. Divine says:

    FabLibber: self-appointed righteous radfem. She tried to tell me off for coming on a ‘feminist’ site and not knowing the rules. I pointed out to her that she was linguistically challenged and she went ape. Tell FatLip she’s linguistically challenged. I got banned in four days, then let back on for a day and then totally banned again. The thing is I didn’t break any of the usual rules, y’know abuse, racist comments, or swear words etc! I came on drunk once and said, “stop tickling me”.

  4. Helen Adiba says:

    You know a lot of these arguments tend to disappear once people drop the ‘feminist’ table and talk in terms of human rights and welfare instead.

    So much Internet arguing goes on because of what one group thinks feminism should be, or should not be. One group think they have the monopoly on what is right and true and good. Everyone else has to shut up and wait outside whilst the big girls talk about Important Stuff.

    I try to forget about feminism as an entity in itself, and concentrate on helping people instead.

    Anyway, to me feminism is so disjointed that it is characterised by too much infighting. And who wants to be associated with that? Meh.

  5. kimboosan says:

    Quite frankly, while I totally disagree with the concept that feminism is above dissent (ludicrous, just asinine) I *do* agree that you tend to paint “The Feminism” as some kind of totalitarian regime. You make no allowances in your writing for feminists who don’t fit into your concept of “evol mainstream feminists.” I hold back from replying on your blog much anymore because I don’t feel welcome here, despite the fact that most of the time I am agreeing with you. But your language always makes it clear that you lump all feminists into one messy bucket with the same handwaving that racists lump “coloreds” into one monolithic stereotypical group for the sake of disparagement. You’ve painted a picture that is very dualistic, FOR or AGAINST feminism, which is simplistic and not something I respect, from feminists or from you.

    • hi Kim. thanks for your comment.

      I agree I do. Though making out my treatment of feminism is akin to a racists treatment of ‘coloureds’ is a little harsh!

      I am a feminist by birth. I was a feminist all my life till recently. If I were a black woman I could be ‘self-hating’ but I couldn’t change the colour of my skin. I do not hate feminism as ‘the other’ like racists hate black people/non-white people.
      And I do not have any power over feminists the way white people tend to in many contexts have power over black people.

      • ‘I hold back from replying on your blog much anymore because I don’t feel welcome here, despite the fact that most of the time I am agreeing with you. ‘

        I think that’s a bit harsh too! Look at all the blogs I comment on where I am in the minority. I also get given quite a hard time here a lot, for my views.

        I think you are a strong, intelligent woman and could argue and take me on without any trouble at all! You are always welcome here. If I slag off feminism you are free to tell me I am being unfair.

  6. redpesto says:

    Judging from the quote, some feminists have learned nothing and forgotten nothing, and are going to make to same mistakes all over again. They simultaneously want to run a ‘closed session’ debate, yet determine the direction of the wider feminist movement (usually by being the shoutiest and most dogmatic voices in the room). What happens when all that supposedly great theoretical work encounters the world outside the women-only radical feminist blog/conference/consciousness-raising group? Usually the result is a trainwreck, but not before they’ve denounced anyone who disagrees or starts asking the obvious awkward questions with the vehemence of true zealots – and blamed everyone and anyone else when the practice fails to live up to the theory.

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