Good Men Can’t Rape…

Posted: April 11, 2011 in Uncategorized

The following post is from my new Favourite Blog evah!  Sofia is ‘a 21- year- old woman with an interest in relationship and gender politics, evolutionary biology, comparative politics, philosophy, and generally paranoid thoughts about our looming dystopic liberal future’. And she takes on feminism like I have seen nobody else do, apart from, if I should be so bold, QRG.

It is about a men’s anti-rape project and it fits in with the idea I have been critiquing lately, (much to the chagrin of the Feminazis), that Real Men Don’t Rape

http://sofiastry.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/male-rape-activist/#comment-798

It’s a pity because he’s really cute, and he has this dorky, Northern-European immigrant aesthetic going for him, which is totally my type. Aaron thinks he looks like a “fag” (not a homosexual, just a straight guy “fag”). He majored in Women and Gender Studies, so physical appearance aside, I wouldn’t want to date that basket of issues.

To the matter at hand, he’s pioneer of a project called “The Consent Project” and a collaborator in “Men Can Stop Rape“. To which I say, no they can’t. No amount of awareness raising will stop a minority of sexually frustrated and otherwise creepy, perverted men from being creepy perverts who wish to rape women. Those are the men that are committing violent rapes. As for the sometimes blurry lines of consent (if a girl is drunk but spreading her legs), shouldn’t women be trying to take some responsibility for preventing those situations from happening in the first place?

Here is some of the horrible advice Ben Privot dispenses:

Check ins are a time to temporarily stop what is going on to determine how all parties are doing… Checking in with your partner during a hookup allows people to express pleasure, express discomfort, change their minds, suggest new things, say yes!, say no, or anything else.

Again, if this is so effective, then why can’t women initiate it? Moreover, if a guy keeps doing this in bed, I’m going to interpret it as sexual inexperience and creepiness and run the hell out of there before I get violently raped. (Lulz)

What is a love letter? It’s pretty self explanatory. It’s an opportunity to creatively envision your next hook up. You can explore the mood, the environment, the wardrobe, or anything and everything you can imagine.

Has this guy had fucking intercourse? Nothing EVER goes according to plan, especially when you are trying to orchestrate sex with a girl for a one night stand, or a second date night. What about ‘last minute resistance’, that famed shit-test Roissy has addressed?

Longer-term relationships pose unique challenges for consent.

I feel like, so many times when I’ve been horny, I’ve just started sucking my boyfriend’s dick when we’ve been watching T.V. and it’s mostly led to sex (sometimes we keep it at a blowjob). I find that method works. Alternatively, he’ll club me over the head with a bat and drag me back to the bedroom neanderthal-style. I wake up and I only know what’s happened because of the sticky miscellaneous substance dripping out onto my thighs. Oh whoops, sorry, trigger warning.

Anyway he blathers on and I’d be surprised if any guy actually gets to the pussy-rainbow after following his horrible advice. (Seriously, is he a virgin?) One of the bigger questions is why can’t these tactics be implement on behalf of women? Is it because men are always up for sex? Do you suppose perhaps, that’s because of biology?

Post Script by QRG

I don’t know if I agree with everything Sofia says. But hey, that doesn’t mean I am an anti-anti-feminist ok! I think she is spot on in the way she draws attention to the way these ‘men can stop rape’ campaigns put the onus on men to ‘solve’ an impossible ‘mystery’ of our times, as to why rape happens and how it can be stopped. The fact is rape/forced sex/sex without consent is probably going to be a part of life forever. So suggesting that any man with any decency has a responsibility to try and change his behaviour towards women, seems mightily unfair.  I would add that this narrative seems to be heteronormative at first glance. Is it all about men raping or not raping women?

Real Men Don’t Rape. Or if they do, they will buy you a nice bunch of FLOWERS to make up for it…

 

Comments
  1. sofia says:

    you’re my new e-friend. i was interested in your link additions! i’ve already had use for referencing your ‘safe space’ post.

  2. sofia says:

    to seize an opportunity, i should say that by making consent the focus of his “game” strategy, he’s presuming that before anything has even happened sex is rape. his whole initiative is stopping sex from becoming rape. it’s in line with the overly methodologized view of sex feminists have. it’s sterile, and completely asexual.

    in an email that i sent to ben, i told him that by placing the onus of men to stop rape he is completely ignoring the female agency present in the equation. ’cause women are always victims, durr. there are preventative measures women can partake in to stop rape, and no, that does not constitute victim blaming. it’s just like looking both ways before you cross the street.

    men |= psychopaths. psycopaths = rapists. therefore, men (as a group) |= rapists.

  3. Alex says:

    I once saw someone say that what men can do to stop rape is “simple, STOP RAPING”.

    Well shit, I’m doing that RIGHT NOW, have been since, well, forever. Even rapists seem to manage it most of the time.

    • The ‘stop raping’ trope is very popular or its more common format, ‘don’t rape’.

      Basically they take victim-blaming and turn it into ‘perpetrator blaming’ but in doing so they assume all men are (potential) perpetrators.

      • Tim says:

        Oh, I could rant about this ‘don’t rape’.

        I once asked a woman, who was engaged in ‘women and equality’-work*1, what she was thinking why an anti-rape campaign is necessary and what kind of campaign she would run *2. She told me, that the solution was simple, if I wanted to stop rape, then all I had to do was, well, ‘don’t rape’ anyone.

        i remember throwing the largest fit of my life. I mean the whole formulation of ‘don’t rape’ doesn’t mean that you should be aware of problematic behaviour. If you tell someone to ‘don’t rape’ you basically imply and accuse someone of already engaging or planning to engage in this kind of behaviour. And you have no right to run around and accuse people of doing so, just because a bunch of faceless commenter on the internet have crowned you to be their queen bee.

        *1 The official name is “Office for Women and Equality Work”. Yeah, because some are more equal than others, right ?

        *2 I study at a small University of Sciences with less than 5000 students and almost no dorms. As far as I am aware, there haven’t been any cases of sexual harrassment, sexual assault or rape, or pretty much any other kind of crimes on campus or other locations associated with it. An anti-rape campaign sounded unnecessary to me.

        • Henry says:

          “Office for Women and Equality Work”

          Yeah some people are definitely more equal than others. There are plenty who will tell you that feminism is about “Women’s equality” – to distinguish it from any other kind of equality, and have NO IDEA why we might think there’s a problem with the thinking behind that.

          I mean they look mystified when I point out that, well, “equality” works both ways round. I’ve ranted about this before but hey…

  4. Oh boy, have I been waiting for a post like this for a while.

    My mother taught me from a very young age that women do not enjoy sex. They only do it as a “favor” to men who have shown themselves to be A, B, C, D, and Etc.

    The first time I got past first base, I began asking at each interval “Is this OK? … Is this OK?” She played ball for the first 5 or 6 steps. After I got towards her pants coming off, things went downhill. She quickly shot me down, made an excuse and left.

    The next day, a VERY good female friend of mine told me that she had been telling people in our school about what a “robot” I was. I explained my feminist “consent” mentallity taught to me by my mother and was quickly pitied by my female friend. She told me “Sex is an escape from the everyday – women need to be able to close their eyes and enjoy the ride – you can’t keep stopping it randomly and breaking the mood.”

    The next opportunity I had to try this out came about a year later. I didn’t ask questions, or stop the action, but relied on her body language to tell me what she she was enjoying (that was the night we lost our virginity.)

    I remember pensively asking her afterwards, if she enjoyed it. She told me at the time “that was just amazing.” She recently told me on Facebook that that night was one of the best times she ever had, physically (that was 10 years ago).

    Since then I’ve been on the reciprocal. A woman who DEMANDS sex from you can be a MASSIVE turn-on, assuming some sort of chemistry.

    Can we just wrap it up this way: Male or Female, if you’re attracted to the other person – them being dominant will be even more hot.

    Damn, now you’ve got me all worked up.

    • Thanks EE sometimes people’s personal accounts make much more sense than any theory anyone can put forward!

      Yes I agree, as I said in my previous post – sex is always about dominance and submission. And the feminist anti-rape campaigns seem to ignore this MAJOR point.

  5. arctic_jay says:

    Rape is a learned behavior. Not in the cultural sense that feminists promulgate, but in the form of sexual abuse experienced as a child. The vast majority of rapists were raped or sexually abused at some point, early on. I guess a real campaign to stop rape would concentrate on preventing child abuse thus breaking the cycle of rape. But that would require knowing how to stop child abuse.

  6. Thomas says:

    @QRG

    I’m not sure why you re-post this or why you like her blog . The enemy of your enemy is your friend? Sofia clearly has a lot of strange ideas regarding gender.

    On the one hand you are writing many posts challenging the idea of biological determinism, on the other hand you are re-posting an article from someone, who honestly believes that human behavior can be explained through varying testosterone levels. I don’t get it.

    • I said I don’t agree with everything she says in this post, or everything she says.

      But she is smart and her critique of feminist dogma is very smart, and funny and she deals with issues I am interested in.

      • Thomas says:

        C’mon there is a difference between not agreeing with everything and having an entire different world-view. You may come to a similar conclusion as she does, but your starting point is very different.

        I dislike the ‘real men don’t rape’ campaigns, too. Putting the responsibility for everything that could go wrong solely on men is unfair. But imho the Consent Project does not fall into the ‘real men don’t rape’ category The advice might be mainly directed at men. I don’t know. At least the language is gender neutral.

        And I don’t think the given advice is bad, which probably makes me a beta male, creepy, virgin loser.

        • sofia says:

          thomas,

          my issue that wasn’t articulated in the cited post, because i’ve addressed it previously in my sphere of the internet, was that his whole “game” strategy centers around consent which effectively presumes all sex to be rape. i find it a perverted view of the sexual dynamic. and yes, the advice is directed at men.

          as for the given advice… it’s not like i’m saying you have to be a casanova to seduce women, but methodologizing sex is robbing the sexual act of its sexiness, and that’s what makes it primarily bad.

          i never use the “beta male, creepy, virgin loser” language, unless i’m occasionally addressing someone who genuinely hates women, specifically in mens rights activism. i think pick up artistry is unfairly represented in general, but that’s tangential and not what the post was about.

  7. elissa says:

    @Artic_jay – though I do believe a subset of rapist may be as you say, I don’t believe the general dynamic is as you describe, with regards to being a significant proportion of the whole.
    There is a similar meme with regards to sex workers – that they become so due to earlier child sexual abuse. The majority of rapes, acquaintance rapes, and sexual misconducts are committed by the young, within a context of inexperience and confusion. The hotly contested 1 in 4 is derived from this very group. Predators and psychopaths are a different lot altogether, though the need to cross pollinate these two groups is an oft used feminist lance designed to enforce the concept of “rape culture” – by numbers.

    Acquaintance rape, translates to rape by someone you know, which reinforces that you can never really tell, which supports the all men have a potential to be rapists. It’s a clever political idea.
    But how well do you really know someone you’ve dated once or twice. Why not call it stranger rape instead? Rapists don’t lie behind bushes waiting; they are in your very classroom!

    Sofia – had a chance to read parts of your blog and do love your style.

  8. Jenny says:

    1) rapists aren’t always creepy perverts, they can be family members, nice looking guys, one’s own boyfriend, etc.

    2) “As for the sometimes blurry lines of consent (if a girl is drunk but spreading her legs), shouldn’t women be trying to take some responsibility for preventing those situations from happening in the first place?”
    It’s not a woman’s own fault if some guy drugs her drink and two, it is the man’s responsibility to recognize she can’t give consent when drunk!

    • sofia says:

      first of all, drugged drinks make up a minority of drunken sex hook-ups. secondly, in an ideal world a man would a man would recognize her judgmental ability is impaired, but we live in a practical world not an ideal world. and yes, you should not be getting blackout drunk around strange guys.

    • sofia says:

      basically, way too many girls just decide it’s rape post-facto because they regret having done it. wikipedia ‘false rape accusations’. it’s a huge crisis!

    • typhonblue says:

      “rapists aren’t always creepy perverts, they can be family members, nice looking guys, one’s own boyfriend, etc.”

      And, um, women?

  9. Jenny, I don’t THINK anyone’s arguing that a man having sex with an “unconscious” woman is NOT rape. (It is rape.)

    The thing is, feminists like to equate “So-drunk-she-was-unconscious” with “Soooooo-drunk” and THAT’S where the problem lies.

    Having sex with and unresponsive person (wet/erect or not) = rape.
    Having sex with a drunk person who is enthusiastic about the experience = NOT RAPE.

  10. redpesto says:

    [Off-topic – but related – insert: apparently there is now a ‘Real Men Don’t Pay for Sex’ campaign as well, which is odd considering that encouraging men to claim ‘I Get My Pussy for Free’ is not exactly a feminist argument. And yes, I don’t think the campaign will acknowledge gay sex.]

  11. Clare says:

    “Excellent to e-meet you sofia. I think we might be able to do some mischief in feminazi blogland!”

    Wow, that’s a pretty straight-up invitation to start a trolling tag team. Okay by me (it often takes one to know one when it comes to trolls right?) but I’ve just got to get my gloat in here and say it pretty much discredits all your whining about mistreatment on feminist blogs. So much for the reasonable dissenter getting silenced. I call bullshit.

    • I didn’t take this to mean “trolling” per se. I see “trolling” as the intentional inciting of people of a given group with the only purpose of angering/annoying.

      If you went onto some holocaust-denying message board and linked some proof about the holocaust, would that be trolling?

      Also, sorry to be gender non-neutral here, but women like QRG and sofia are fucking IMPORTANT. They have the opportunity to speak to WOMEN who are being bombarded with feminist propaganda and say “I’m a woman – I’ve examined the stance – I’m living the “oppression” and these bitches are LYING to you. Come with me – there’s freedom, good sex, healthy self-image and free pie on this side of the fence.”

      To women who might be being force-fed feminazi propaganda, one of the first things they’re indoctrinated in is “don’t listen to men.” The likes of me, ballgame and toysoldier cannot move them – in fact we may make them become even more defensive.

  12. Clare says:

    “Excellent to e-meet you sofia. I think we might be able to do some mischief in feminazi blogland!”

    Wow, that’s a pretty straight-up invitation to start a trolling tag team. Okay by me (it often takes one to know one when it comes to trolls right?) but I’ve just got to get my gloat in here and say it pretty much discredits all your whining about mistreatment on feminist blogs. So much for the reasonable dissenter getting silenced. I call bullshit.

  13. Clare says:

    Thanks for this. I’ll be sure to spread the word!

  14. Clare says:

    Easilyenthused, most commenters justify their behaviour on the basis that they are taking action for a greater good. I know I do. The example you give could still be trolling. It’s just that no-one would care because it would quite rightly be seen as justified. Fine, so you don’t like feminism but putting it in the same category as holocaust deniers is slippery.

    My point is that a person who enters online spaces with the obvious motive to do “some mischief” probably won’t endear themselves to those communities and so perhaps shouldn’t act offended and indignant if those people don’t want to engage with them!

    I notice you call feminists “bitches” indirectly. I’m not surprised you get so excited about women like Sofia. It figures.

    • I didn’t enter feministe discussions with the intent to do mischief initially. You clare have caught me at the tail end of a FORTY YEAR relationship with feminism. This is our break up you are witnessing and not my attitude to your precious dogma/identity/whatever it is that I set out with.

      I used to be a passionate and dedicated feminist.

      And let’s not start making this personal about ‘women like Sofia’ or me. Yes I see why EE mentioned us as examples of women working around gender issues without the straitjacket of feminism. But it’s not a way-in to start making suggestions about women on a personal level.

      Thanks,

  15. Clare says:

    It looks like you’ve probably misunderstood what I was saying. Goodness knows what you thought I meant but I can see it would be convenient for you if I was dismissing you or Sofia as “bad” women or casting personal aspersions on your sexuality. Let me be clear- by “women like Sofia”, I mean anti-feminist women who argue points that are convenient for any guys who might see feminism as a threat.

    No personal insults. Sorry about that.

  16. Clare says:

    Oh and I haven’t said anything about my “identity” so I don’t know where that part of your comment came from! Also, if I’ve spouted any dogma, please point it out to me.

  17. Clare says:

    Having said all that, I do hear what you’re saying about your relationship with feminism as a whole.

  18. I apologize for using the term “bitches” indirectly. It was my intent to show that women (like other groups) use formerly-derogatory terms to express their closeness.
    For example, two women could say “those bitches are telling you the truth” and it would not be disrespectful.
    Similarly, two black men could say “those niggas are telling you the truth” and it would not be disrespectful.
    Also, two gay men could say “those fags are telling you the truth” and it would not be disrespectful.

    Bitch, nigga and fag are all co-opted terms that can be used to denigrate or commiserate. So is “bro.”

    If a woman came up to me and said “Listen, bro.” I would find that instantly disrespectful from anyone other than another man.

    I’m sorry that I had to explain all that to you, Clare. I would assume you should know that terminology and the way it is used within marginalized groups.

    I would assume it SO MUCH, that I think you were intentionally taking my “indirect” reference to the word “bitches” that you were projecting bad faith on my part.

    I don’t appreciate that.

  19. Clare says:

    Hmmm. Your point seemed tenuous but you had me well and truly giving you the benefit of the doubt until that snipe about “having to explain”. The stuff about the word “bro” is seriously pushing it in terms of credibility because the word hasn’t ever had the same perjorative quality as “bitch”. Also women DO use the word “bro” to address men in much the same way that a man might say “sister” to a woman! Are you saying this is somehow deeply offensive regardless of the tone?

    Nice try but dismissing a woman for calling you out on your use of a potential gendered insult on the basis that you were putting those words into the mouth of another woman doesn’t really cut it.

  20. I dismissed you because you got hung up on one word that I didn’t even say, but merely implied that other women might say. I didn’t realize that the thought of anti-feminist women calling feminist women “bitches” was controversial. Anti-feminist women, could you clarify if I was in the wrong here?

    Anyway, Clare, since my point was so weak to start with, it probably wouldn’t be a big bother for you to knock it over ala Godzilla in a sandbox.

    And as far as Feminism/Holocaust – just so you know, I was TRYING to pick out something that there really is no debate over. I could’ve used “Anthropomorphic Global Warming” but flipped a coin and decided that “Holocaust” is easier to spell without having to consult Merriam Webster. But now I DID have to consult it so I guess that was a moot point.

    NOW that’s cleared up, please knock down my tenuous point:
    “Going to communities that are deeply seated in their beliefs and dropping in with occasional non-conforming anecdotes, opinions, etc. in an effort to poke holes in their story and hopefully bring on-the-fence readers to your side is NOT trolling.”

    I’m an atheist and have been reading atheist blogs for years. We would get religious folks comment on our blogs all the time.
    When they popped in with “YA’LL ARE GOING TO HELL! JESUS SAID IN EPHESIANS BLAHBLAHBLAH” … that was trolling.

    When they popped in with “You quoted Ephesians 7:22 as saying So and so, but in this version, it says “This that and the other” which doesn’t quite work with your point here.

    To some of the less patient atheists, that was seen as mischievous nit-picking. But it sure as hell wasn’t trolling. It served as a valid success for the religious – “Athiests don’t always have all their shit together.” You can’t blame them for that. (Even though they were wrong about the larger picture.) ((In my opinion.))

  21. Clare says:

    “Going to communities that are deeply seated in their beliefs and dropping in with occasional non-conforming anecdotes, opinions, etc. in an effort to poke holes in their story and hopefully bring on-the-fence readers to your side is NOT trolling.”

    This is a different point (in this thread at least) and not the one I considered tenuous.

    Again, I would say the above example could still be considered trolling behaviour. That doesn’t mean it isn’t ever justified and I accept it doesn’t necessarily go hand in hand with outright attempts to antagonise or annoy but the lines are obviously blurred. I do however think you make a good case with the examples from the atheist blog.

    • I’m happy we have a point of agreement.

      Were you referring (regarding tenuous) to a point I made in another thread or the OP of the thread? I won’t suppose to argue on behalf of another commenter or the blog master without their permission.

  22. Clare says:

    I was referring to your explanation about using the term “bitches” indirectly and whne you said “it was my intent to show that women (like other groups) use formerly-derogatory terms to express their closeness”.

    No point in going over old ground but, as I indicated, I was going with it for a little while (despite that tenuousness).

  23. elissa says:

    Let’s see what Emily D. has to say on topic…she sure has her way of “checking-in” with glee and abandon.

    Wild Nights – Wild Nights!
    Were I with thee
    Wild Nights should be
    Our luxury!

    Futile – the winds –
    To a heart in port –
    Done with the compass –
    Done with the chart!

    Rowing in Eden –
    Ah, the sea!
    Might I moor – Tonight –
    In thee!

  24. H says:

    Sex is always about dominance and submission (Quiet Riot Girl)

    That seems pretty deterministic to me. Sure sex *can* be about that and very fun it is too when all those involved are into it but I think it’s rather limiting to say all sexual exchanges are underpinned by that one specific power dynamic, with no room for deviation.

    The thing is, feminists like to equate “So-drunk-she-was-unconscious” with “Soooooo-drunk” and THAT’S where the problem lies.

    Having sex with and unresponsive person (wet/erect or not) = rape.
    Having sex with a drunk person who is enthusiastic about the experience = NOT RAPE.”
    (EasilyEnthused)

    Well, I’m a feminist and I agree with your distinction 100%. I can’t speak for all feminists but I find it hard to imagine that many feminists honestly trying to claim a drunk person who communicates enthusiasm is as unable to give consent as they would be if they were unconscious (let alone that misrepresentation being something feminists specifically “like to do” as a group). It’s really not hard to tell the difference is it?

    On another note, I think the “bro” issue mentioned above is interesting. IMO, use of this word could indeed be offensive if a white person is presumptuously doing it to address a person of colour. However, I really don’t see how it could be specifically offensive to men, as it seems to me that “bro” is a word people use when they are addressing an equal they connect with in some way. It implies familial companionship and a sense of being buddies. I therefore don’t see why it would be automatically offensive for any woman to address any man in such a way. (Also, it has to be said that I have yet to hear anyone angrily saying “that man is a fucking bro” or hissing “bro!” when a guy offends them!)

  25. Todd says:

    EasilyEnthused – “sorry to be gender non-neutral here, but women like QRG and sofia are fucking IMPORTANT. They have the opportunity to speak to WOMEN”

    Exactly. So why are they throwing it away with shit like this?-

    http://sofiastry.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/feministe-banned-me/#comments

    EasilyEnthused – “I see “trolling” as the intentional inciting of people of a given group with the only purpose of angering/annoying.”

    So do I and the post+thread at Sofia’s is a good example of it.

    • I know we are fascinating people Todd but your interest in my and sofia (who I have only ‘met’ online this past week) ‘tactics’ around how we challenge feminism is weird.

      I have no clue what your own gender politics/interests are. You only ever criticise you don’t engage in any discussions about general/specific issues, that aren’t to do with online discourse. You’re telling me, a woman, how I am ‘doing it wrong’ and I find your attitude arrogant and judgemental.

  26. Todd says:

    You’re sounding like a feminist now😉

    I know I’m coming across as arrogant and maybe you’re right but please at least think about what I’m saying. Your critique could be valuable but it looks like you’re hellbent on losing the opportunity.

    • I wish QRG wouldn’t intentionally get herself banned. That is my desire because I desire more heterosexual, born-female bloggers to confront the radical feminist legions.

      My apologies to the bi and trans women who may feel “discarded” by my previous comment – but I have found that bi and trans women are instantly disregarded by feminists the same way men are.

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